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Police probe Ukip cabbie’s Santa sign:Updated

December 20, 2013
By
Dear Father Christmas

pic: Chris Martin

A local businessman who had  been questioned by the police after he erected a large illuminated sign asking:

“Dear Father Christmas all we really need is our country back!”

will not be facing any further action Hampshire Police have said.

Timothy ‘Dusty’ Miller (64) who runs Hedge End based Millers Taxis has erected the sign outside his house at the bottom of Sunday’s Hill, Botley in full view of the passing traffic on the busy main road.

Last week he explained to Ray Turner that he had put the sign up because he wanted the UK to leave the EU and also expressed strong views on the EU, freemasonry, Catholicism and the ‘common purpose’ leadership development programme.

He also condemned politicians as traitors and ‘hypocrites’ for laying wreaths on the cenotaph in honour of those who died fighting for ‘free speech and democracy’ while ‘giving it away’ to the EU.

Officers from Hampshire Constabulary visited Miller yesterday morning and he was later questioned informally.

According to Mr Miller, a police officer told him they had received ‘quite a few’ (number unspecified) complaints about the sign and asked him how long he intended to display it.

He was also asked if he belonged to a political party.

In a statement Hampshire Police said:

“We are aware of the sign and that some people have complained because they feel it may have racist connotations.

“We have spoken to the property owner who erected the sign and he has told us the sign reflects a political view rather than a racial one.

“As the wording of the sign is not in itself racist or offensive, no criminal offence is being committed.”

Miller –  a Ukip member –  said he intends to keep the current sign up for the  ’12 days of Christmas’ but added that it was going to be ‘the first of many’ running up to the May 22 Euro Elections and warned the message ‘would get harder and harder’.

He told Eastleigh News that his next sign – due to be erected just before the UK opens its borders to Bulgarian and Romanian migrants on January 1 – would be directed at David Cameron with the message ‘Shut the door’.

“He has got to shut the door” said Miller,

“We have been swamped by every nationality”

Miller also told Eastleigh News he wasn’t surprised to hear from the police and that a woman had previously knocked on his door and called him an:

“Evil, nasty, obnoxious shit”

But he insisted that people should not be offended by the sign:

 “There is nothing about this sign that is racist.

“Everybody calls you a racist for wanting to control immigration”.

The cabbie said his views on immigration only reflected the opinions of the ordinary everyday people  he had encountered as passengers over 40 years; that he had been born in India and that he would happily employ Romanians or Bulgarians as  taxi drivers.

 

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96 Responses to Police probe Ukip cabbie’s Santa sign:Updated

  1. Judge D on December 20, 2013 at 8:19 am

    Brilliantly ironic! Born on India and complaining about immigration. Fair enough. Send him back first.

    • jj.s.1111@gmail.com on December 20, 2013 at 2:38 pm

      So British citizens who weren’t born in the UK, don’t get a say on immigration?

    • Molly Bennett on December 20, 2013 at 10:02 pm

      what for ? showing some common sense! our politicians could learn from this gentleman .

    • MEL on December 27, 2013 at 12:03 pm

      Perhaps some people need to put ‘sense of humour’ on their Christmas list for next year? They’re going to need it!!
      Meantime Mr Miller, I fear Santa can’t help with your sign’s plea…unfortunately he voted for the EU when Finland joined in 1995.
      When interviewed at the time he said he’d been convinced by the economic arguments, but now he’s not so sure! With the EU postal directive sending UK stamp prices through the roof, his business has plummeted because no-one can afford to write to him anymore?
      Which just goes to show, the bigger the lie the more people believe it.
      Next up he’ll be telling us he’s complied with EU CO2 emission directives and has a self propelled Eco-sledge using wood pellets, (solar panels are no good for night time flying); the downside is that Rudolph and the team have been grounded. A spokesman for the group said they had no ‘i-deer’ things would end so abruptly. Fortunately EU subsidies are being made available to cover the costs; whatever next?

  2. John Edwards on December 20, 2013 at 8:21 am

    Happy Christmas, everyone.
    I’m really looking forward to 2014 and May.

    What a great sign. It remains to be seen if the thought police and PC brigade get their way over an individual’s freedom of thought, expression and freedom to convey an opinion.

    • Jack Kinsman on December 21, 2013 at 10:48 am

      If this sign is ‘racist’ then I should have been arrested 2 years ago, because I’ve been running around in my little Ford fiesta with the sign-
      “We want our country back-Stuff the E.U.” and apart from ‘well done’ comments nobody has called me racist.
      All the best to the man who loves his country.
      Jack \kinsman

  3. Wychavon on December 20, 2013 at 9:35 am

    So who is allowed freedom of speech in this country? If minoritys are able to lawfully campaign, protest and express their opinions without police visiting them then this right must extend to all. We may not agree with the views but we must allow right to express them or do we already have thought police?.

    • Nigel Lander on December 20, 2013 at 5:53 pm

      And Choudary is allowed to spout his evil in London – with police protection.

      • SYDNE DYER on December 20, 2013 at 8:27 pm

        THAT IS BECAUSE HE IS A MUSLIM!!1 WELCOME TO CAMORON’S BRITAIN!!!******VOTE UKIP************

  4. Keith House on December 20, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Tim Miller is wrong on policy but has every right to maintain his freedom of speech and expression. Heavy-handed polce action is not helpful.

    • Ray Turner on December 20, 2013 at 10:50 am

      Whether its the ‘wrong policy’ or not is surely a matter of opinion Keith.

      The difficulty we have, and one of the motives for erecting the sign, is that a full and proper discussion of these issues is being stifled, by ‘The Establishment’, who seem to want to dictate to us what the correct policy is…

      • Keith House on December 20, 2013 at 10:53 am

        Depends what you call the “establishment”. I certainly support Tim’s freedom of expression while disagreeing wiith his assertion.

        • Nathan Gill on December 20, 2013 at 11:58 am

          You really don’t want our country back – meaning for the British to be in control of Britain??

          • Jim Saunders Ukip on December 20, 2013 at 5:34 pm

            Freedom of speech us Britons hold dear. A Police state is the work of Socialists and corrupt self serving Dictators!

            • SYDNE DYER on December 20, 2013 at 8:30 pm

              IE:: FEDERAL STAE OF EUROPE!! OR AS WE ALL KNOW IT THE “”EU”” VOTE UKIP******

        • EU Resistance Group on December 20, 2013 at 3:58 pm

          Yes of course you Do Mr FibDems. A Party Like yours that is so Pro-EU, Your Idiot of a Party Leader continues to Make a fool of himself with his Pro EU Stance. We all Know what Eastleigh LibDems stand for and it is NOT THE PEOPLE OF BRITAIN! Oh well, Make the most of the time you have left House!!

          • SYDNE DYER on December 20, 2013 at 8:32 pm

            OBLIVION IS IMMINENT!!! ***VOTE UKIP***** GOODBYE CLEGG AND THE LIB DUMBS!!

    • Keith Day on December 20, 2013 at 3:58 pm

      Does an “illuminated sign” need planning consent from the Borough Council though Keith? The government’s planning portal suggests it might.

      • Ray Turner on December 20, 2013 at 5:21 pm

        Christmas will have gone, the lights will be down and the next banner will be up before EBC get their act together on that one Keith…

      • Keith House on December 20, 2013 at 5:51 pm

        Temporary signs and illuminations (estate agent signs, election hoardings, Christmas decorations) do not need planning permission. I imagine Tim Miller would make a claim that this is temporary. Ho ho ho!

      • Eastleigh Xpress on December 20, 2013 at 6:35 pm

        I suspect that was the first avenue to be explored…

  5. Dubs on December 20, 2013 at 11:50 am

    Gives a whole new meaning to PC Plod.

    • Ray Turner on December 20, 2013 at 3:19 pm

      If the Police receive a complaint of this nature, something would be wrong if they didn’t investigate.

  6. Steve on December 20, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    The guy is clearly a paranoid conspiracy theorist and an example why I don’t like getting taxis

    • Ray Turner on December 20, 2013 at 3:49 pm

      I’ve met him Steve.He’s an ordinary citizen, just like the rest of us, running a successful small business.

    • Eastleigh Xpress on December 20, 2013 at 6:41 pm

      He does talk about a ‘Grand plan’ and a ‘hidden government’ so it would be safe to say he subscribes to a conspiracy theory.

      • silverminer on December 23, 2013 at 10:47 am

        A conspiracy is two or more people collaborating for a nefarious purpose. If you don’t accept that conspiracies are inevitable then you’re naive. If you think that the most powerful people in the in world, who are there simply because they desire that power more than everyone else, are somehow above participating in conspiracy then you’re a fool.

  7. rushisright on December 20, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    In a statement Hampshire Police said: “As the wording of the sign is not in itself racist or offensive, no criminal offence is being committed.”

    But that didn’t stop them going into his house and questioning him. What a disgusting country we have become.

    • Jonathon on December 20, 2013 at 3:25 pm

      What business is it of the Police if he is or isn’t a member of a political party? One step closer to the Stasi.

    • Eastleigh Xpress on December 20, 2013 at 6:37 pm

      What happened here was that the police visited his house but he was in bed – they rang him later and questioned him over the phone.
      He was never under caution.

  8. MG on December 20, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    Can’t wait to see the next one !

    Tim should be our leader !

    Vote – “TIM MILLER”

  9. kentonia11 on December 20, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    Being visited by the police smells of big brother and a 1984 scenario.

  10. Matthew (Shackled) Myatt on December 20, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    I found a really offensive sign the other day that clearly lies and offends me.. Will the police investigate that if I complain to them.

    Welcome to Eastleigh
    Tackling Climate Change

    Now if that was not an offensive and dishonest sign then Tim’s sign could hardly be anything more than his own personal statement, where as the other sign is an attempt to deceive and make a political statement.

    Hampshire Police have no right to ask if he is a member of any group, political or otherwise and I hope that Mr House, in his role as Leader of the peoples council for Eastleigh, will be making a very angry approach to the Chief Constable of Hampshie Police about this clear attempt by them to illegally challenge Tim’s right to protest and his right to free speech in the Eastleigh Borough.

    Hampshire Police, we are watching you very closely and we will not allow you to further erode our hard fought rights and freedoms.!

    I am sure this will go national and I do hope that Hants Police are forced to account for their disgusting neo-nazi behaviour.

  11. Brian Challis on December 20, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    Well done Mr Miller. I am sick of living in a country where I’m told how to think, how to speak and threatened by the law if my opinion happens to offend a minority. The only thing I want this year, is a visit from the Ghost of Christmas Future showing me a vision of Nigel Farage choosing the wallpaper for Number 10.

    • Ray Turner on December 20, 2013 at 10:15 pm

      Pity I can’t +1 this comment in the same way that I can on some other sites…
      Its a great comment. Thanks Brian.

      • Eastleigh Xpress on December 20, 2013 at 10:22 pm

        +1

    • Keith House on December 20, 2013 at 10:56 pm

      You are free to leave the country Brian. One of the many benefits of EU membership is you can go to any of the other 27 states tomorrow. You’d have difficulty going to anywhere else long-term: most other non-EU nations are less tolerant than we are in the UK.

      • jilli roberts on April 30, 2014 at 12:37 am

        You could do this before the EU. Many did.

  12. Molly Bennett on December 20, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    anyone would think the politicians are getting nervous about the rise of UKIP ! any piffling opportunity to pounce and there they are, the puppet masters must be worried as 2014/15 looms on the horizon and their jobs are seriously at risk.

    • Ray Turner on December 20, 2013 at 10:17 pm

      Nervous is understating it Molly. They’re having kittens…

  13. M.C.Bruty on December 20, 2013 at 11:47 pm

    I have no problem with the sign provided its in English an is no threat to our safety which has been a worry over the last 30 plus years because of soft respective governments to major social problems.

  14. John Renard on December 21, 2013 at 12:12 am

    I once lived in a country which was the envy of the world for its freedoms, especially freedom of speech. There was a place called Speakers’ Corner in Hyde Park, and similar spots elsewhere (including Southsea), where anyone could get on a soapbox and have their say.

    The audience would heckle, forcing the speakers to defend their views. It was all great fun and extremely civilised.

    Then came the liberal trendies, po-faced and earnest, with their political correctness and such nonsense, emasculating our precious freedoms and making people frightened to speak their mind – just like Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

    And so we come to the sad situation where someone’s expression of opinion results in police intervention – something unimaginable not many years ago.

    For this we must blame the Left – the stern faced socialists and the wishy-washy Liberals, like those in Eastleigh led by Keith House.

    • Eastleigh Xpress on December 23, 2013 at 1:58 am

      The soapbox has been replaced by the internet

  15. Pete Stewart on December 21, 2013 at 12:20 am

    Conspiracy is the most logical explanation for the miraculous enlightenment which occurs when national politicians are elected to office.

    In opposition they speak out against the EU but once elected, something miraculous happens and they end up being its greatest apologists.

    I invite readers to suggest alternative theories to explain this.

  16. John Renard on December 21, 2013 at 12:27 am

    Keith House either does not understand – or chooses to ignore – the widespread outrage and despair over the alarming rate of immigration and the increasing, seemingly unstoppable interference of the EU in our domestic affairs.

    Presumably it offends his Liberal conscience that people should think like Mr Miller and so many others.

    We weep to see our precious countryside disappearing under concrete, our doctors, hospitals, schools and other services overwhelmed. All in pursuit of that false, trendy idol “diversity”.

    We are not racist. We are realists. We love our country. And we want it back.

    • Ray Turner on December 21, 2013 at 9:04 am

      I completely agree John.
      We are realists rather than idealists…

  17. Keith House on December 21, 2013 at 9:12 am

    If you read the thread John, you will see I was the first to defend Tim Miller’s free speech. On the facts, immigration is declining, most EU regulation is supported by the UK as it is about securing free trade that helps British jobs, and we need new homes for the grandchildren on the baby boomers that don’t stand a chance of otherwise geting homes, either bought or rented.

    • Wychavon on December 21, 2013 at 6:42 pm

      Both my children, in their 20’s have recently bought houses. One of them in Grange Park and other in the much more expensive and desirable Brighton. Do you know how they did it Keith – by working hard and saving. Please don’t give us this fatuous argument about our children not being able to buy here because there are not enough cheap houses. There are not enough houses due to the influx of people to this area. Will you personally guarantee that all the new houses you plan to build will only be sold to Eastleigh residents? That is the pledge we need from you.

      • Keith House on December 22, 2013 at 10:21 pm

        Terrific that your 20-somethings have been successful. If we move from the specific to the general the simple facts are that the average age of first home purchases has risen dramatically over recent years. There is only limited net in-migration to south Hampshire, though there is drift from Southampton and Portsmouth to their suburbs as there has been for decades simply due to the cities inability to meet their own housing need, especially for family homes.

      • Eastleigh Xpress on December 23, 2013 at 2:05 am

        That’s very commendable Wychavon but If your children are in their 20’s and are first time buyers then It is likely that they have been subsidised by government schemes paid for by tax payers, some of whom would be living in rented accommodation – some of whom would be hard working immigrants.

        • Wychavon on December 23, 2013 at 9:38 am

          Neither of my children used the government schemes to purchase a property. I would advise you EX to have a look at what they offer to realise how very limited they are – even for key workers.(One of my chidren is a teacher). I didn’t mention immigrants in my comment (you did). I picked up on Keith House’s assertion that baby boomers (who are now getting the blame for everything BTW) grandchildren can’t buy houses presumably in Eastleigh borough as this is KH’s empire. Will he be able to guarantee that local people will be able to buy houses locally or will they sell the some of the planned thousands of new houses to people from even Southampton and Portsmouth?

          Have you considered standing as a politician EX – you have the right qualities?

          • Eastleigh Xpress on December 23, 2013 at 10:18 am

            Isn’t the government and BOE forcing savers to subsidise house buyers through artificially low interest rates?

            I’ve pointed out the contribution made by hard working immigrants to the economy in the context of the issues raised in the article and thread and to further discussion.

            • Wychavon on December 23, 2013 at 10:53 am

              Sorry to disappoint – they bought before the scheme was introduced so they are not being subsidised.

              • Eastleigh Xpress on December 23, 2013 at 1:36 pm

                But If they currently have a mortgage they are being subsidised at the expense of savers.

                I expect if/when the IR reverts to historical mean there will be plenty of cheap houses though this scenario isn’t a vote winner.

  18. bodge on December 21, 2013 at 11:12 am

    I am not surprised the fascists banged on his door to be “probed” by the unlawful lawmen. If you want to know who it is that you should fear the most then find out who it is your not allowed to talk about and the sheeple will bleat louder than a fire alarm because its the sheep that make up the voting majority of sad little pathetic system losers who cry the loudest when they feel slighted by the truth and the truth is, we have idiots and simpletons running the country.

  19. Steve on December 21, 2013 at 11:32 am

    John Renard – given your realist view I hope you are asking all those British people that live aboad – often not learning the language and probably using other country’s health services, to return immediately.

    Nothing is perfect but I would rather live in harmony with the other countries of the world than be part of a little Englander mentality. By the way, which country would you like back – the country of empire? the country of slavery? the country of the crusades? [I have to say I would quite like back the immediate post war more socialist country when for a while we did actually seem to be really developing as one nation- new social housing, the foundations of the health service etc]

    Matthew Myatt – I fear for your blood pressure and I find your views on the police slightly alarming – I wonder how much you would complain if you made a complaint to the police about something and they didn’t follow it up? And following things up just means checking – not arresting or suspecting a crime necessarily. The police are not perfect but from my experience they do a fantastic job in very difficult circumstances.

    I hope you don’t complain about wanting peple welcomed to Eastleigh – we liike this friendly town! I think as Eastleigh is one of the greener councils so it is tackling climate change – whether that is successful or wise is a matter of opinion but I can’t see that as offensive. If even trying to look after this planet is offensive to you perhaps you would volunteer to try another one 🙂 .

    I might raise a question about why someone felt the need to complain about the sign itself. I suspect that the history of the far right, of which UKIP is the latest incarnation, might have something to do with that. We all complain a little too much these days and are more concerned about our rights (particularly our right not to be offended) and less about our responsibilities (to each other, and yes to the world).

    And this story has now gone global – the Huffington post has picked it up – Well done Steve for getting the story out there.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/20/santa-sign_n_4478867.html

    Merry Christmas one and all.

    • Matthew Myatt on December 25, 2013 at 12:50 am

      Sir,

      I fear you have either been blinkered by FibDem leaflets or you are just ignorant of the so called green policies of the local FibDem council.

      A council that in 2011, cut down 186 trees in Boyatt Wood alone.

      A council that has allowed planning permission on green sites and public open spaces throughout the borough from 2005 to 2013.

      A council that continues to lie to the people of Eastleigh about protecting countryside while actively engaging in discussions with developers and large corporations with regard to building on protected green field sites.

      Fear not for my blood pressure sir.. Fear for your lack of knowledge and understanding of the FibDem lie,

      “Tackling Climate Change.”

  20. David Giles on December 21, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Well done Dusty , everyone I know wants Brittian back!! Crockett from Doncaster

    • Jack Kinsm,an on December 21, 2013 at 4:02 pm

      Well done ‘Dusty’ Miller. I have a sign on my car window saying ‘We want our country back — Stuff the E.U.’ and nobody has said a bad word about it. Try to find out exactly WHO reported it to the police and then write to your local newspaper.
      Will you let me know how you get on please Dusty, I want to write it up in our ‘Viewpoint’ in the Grimsby Telegraph.
      Good luck, and have a very Merry British Christmas (if I’m allowed to say that!)
      Cheers
      Jack Kinsman

  21. Pete Stewart on December 21, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    Keith,

    1) FREE SPEECH
    Credit where credit’s due. You did indeed defend Mr Miller’s right to free speech. Just one small correction: Yours was the 2nd (not the 1st) defence of Mr Miller’s right to free speech, your comment being published at 10:03 am, “Wychavon’s” being published 28 minutes earlier at 09:35 am.

    2) IMMIGRATION
    The statistics I’ve seen, suggest immigration is not declining as you suggest, but still persistently around 500,000 per annum. Perhaps you are thinking of NET immigration, which is indeed declining. But NET immigration is as uninformative as a bank account statement with no debits and credits to show how the balance was created.

    3) FREE TRADE
    Who can truly say the EU globalist version of free trade has benefitted the majority? Here we are, still wallowing in the most prolonged depression in living memory with an iniquitous wealth gap and youth unemployment at an all time record. If globalism was such a great thing, how did this happen?

    It happened BECAUSE under EU globalism, the only beneficiaries can be the globalist entrepreneurs and their political stooges, and those who abandon their homelands in eastern Europe to work in the west. Otherwise everyone else has lost their most precious assets which they enjoyed before 1973: Jobs, security, freedom, peace, leisure time and true wealth (as opposed to debt) (or is that a romanticized version of our pre-EU days)?

    Meanwhile may I take this opportunity of asking Santa through the pages of Eastleigh News, if I too could have my country back.

    • Keith House on December 22, 2013 at 10:17 pm

      Inconveniently for you Pete, immigrants pay more tax and draw lower benefits than other residents, so your economic point is fundamentally flawed. And if we suddenly had trade barriers with the EU, which would be the inevitable consequence of the little-Englander UKIP approach, we would lose jobs and investment.

  22. Amanda on December 21, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    Good on him I say. Everyone has become too scared to say”boo to a goose” these days. This country is not Great Britain it’s “Little Britain”. We have no identity any more. Sort out the lazy slackers in this country and stop letting everyone else in…

  23. John Hagley on December 21, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Hmmmm, someone complains about a poster and the Police jump, Young girls complain of being sexually abused & where are the Police?????

  24. Pete Stewart on December 21, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    Does anyone know where to get a sign like that? I want one!
    I reckon this is going to become a MASSIVE national talking point. We (the British people) have been trodden under by the Westminster elite for 40 years. We’ve had enough and now we want our country back!

  25. Molly Bennett on December 22, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    As usual Steve a blinkered and head in the sand quote , i don’t know where you have been or what you have been reading over this last few years but you surely cant ignore the views of 85% of the people of this country ? perhaps you are one of the 15% whose lives are not affected by the massive unemployment, the plight of young families trying to find a place to live , the parents who have to fight to get a place in the school of their choice , or waiting in an ever lengthening queue for hospital treatment because there are not enough qualified staff, and this situation is getting worse by the day. Look the truth in the eye Steve and tell us that immigration is going to solve all this.
    You must be on a different planet to the rest of us if you think the EU is the new savior! we are being lied to and systematically robbed by a POLITICAL UNION that no one voted for and as I have already pointed out 85% of us want out of . I myself can no longer afford the gross greed of this particular club and like so many others will do all i can to get me and mine out , while we still have a country to save !

    • Eastleigh Xpress on December 22, 2013 at 6:28 pm

      “I have already pointed out 85% of us want out”

      Crikey Molly! That sounds rather a lot!

      Where did you get this figure from?

  26. Molly Bennett on December 22, 2013 at 8:29 pm

    Hi you have only to check the last EU election figures, 80% said no, since when the swing to UKIP has increased dramatically. I would suggest the figure is even higher now. no wonder Cameron is worried

    • Eastleigh Xpress on December 23, 2013 at 10:41 am

      I still can’t find that 85% ‘no’ vote Molly. In the 2009 EU elections Ukip got 16.6% of the vote. The latest yougov/sun poll on EU last week showed 39% in favour of withdrawal and this drops to 23% when asked how they’d vote if Cameron won a ‘major’ renegotiation of EU membership (whatever that means).

      • Molly Bennett on December 23, 2013 at 10:05 pm

        Hi 2004 eu elections 80% and counting, but our politicians completely ignored the peoples wish

  27. Pete Stewart on December 22, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    Steve,

    Conspiracy does occur. Witness the conspiracy to rig cricket matches!

    By extension, would you consider it paranoid to believe in conspiracy theory re football matches?

    Or by extension to believe in conspiracy theory re European politics?

    Sadly, wherever large sums of money are involved, you will find conspiracy.

  28. Molly Bennett on December 22, 2013 at 11:16 pm

    As you say Mr house , immigrants draw lower benefits than other residents,I ask how much ?and for how long ?have the immigrants paid into the pot? many of the residents have spent years paying in to the funds that the immigrants are claiming from doing nothing, money issues aside I feel there are much larger issues at stake here, put simply if we all board the same bus and pay the same fare irrespective of our origins at some point the bus becomes full, to continue to allow people to board is sheer folly and puts everyone’s life at great risk , we have reached that point! but our politicians of every ilk cannot or will not admit it. and continue to allow people to jump aboard. Please don’t insult the intelligence of most people by the so called ‘trade barrier threat ‘ if we leave the EU , There are better business brains than yours Mr house who would dispute that FAIRY TALE . We and you know it is just a fabrication of a desperate party.

  29. Pete Stewart on December 23, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Keith,

    1) TAX
    Under UK tax law, can EU migrant workers reclaim income tax for any tax year, provided they return home for a total of two months in that tax year? Can British tax payers reclaim their income tax?

    2) BENEFITS
    Is it not the case that due to the Government’s underfunding of HMRC and the resulting lack of investigatory staff to carry out one of the most essential jobs in the Land, EU migrant workers’ claims for benefits are paid without question (unless there is clear evidence of fraud) because manpower limitations make it is impossible for HMRC to check the validity of claims for dependents living in eastern Europe? Are British claimants paid without question?

    Are migrant workers briefed before and after they arrive here, about the most efficient ways to claim UK benefits, and that multilingual instruction booklets were distributed by local councils including Eastleigh, as early as 2003, to aid in that claims process, and that the most frequent claim on HMRC by EU migrant workers, is for a spouse and three children (one of whom is often allegedly disabled) living back home in eastern Europe, and that the total benefits payable (Child Benefit, Child Tax Credits and Working Tax Credits) approaches £24,000 per annum, and that this is payable either to an account in the UK or in eastern Europe according to the wishes of the claimant? Can British claimants claim that much and have it paid into an offshore account for their relatives living abroad?

    3) TRADE
    Is it not the case that Britain enjoys a unique advantage in Europe with respect to global investment, which predates the formation of the EU by centuries, and that this would continue regardless of our membership of the EU?

    Is it not also the case that Britain suffers a major trade deficit with the EU on visible exports, and that the EU would therefore not wish to initiate a trade war with Britain under any circumstances?

    • Keith House on December 23, 2013 at 10:28 pm

      Pete – if people are entitled to benefits, they are entitled to benefits. It matters not if they are Poles working in the UK (contributing to our weath), of retired Brits on the Costa del Sol (further draining the Spanish economy).

      The simple reality on trade is that we are already seeing a drift of our very profitable finance sector start to migrate to Frankfurt. It is what has held the UK economy together. In the very unlikely event the UK were to leave the UK we would, like Switzerland and Norway, have to negotiate a retention of trade arrangements from outside rather than inside the UK. So we would have zero democratic accountability.

      The naive position of UKIP is both misleading and dangerous. The sooner more people wake up and understand this the better.

      Fortunately most people are not seduced by the little-Englander 1950s spin, albeit there are a lot of loud voices making that case.

      • John Renard on December 24, 2013 at 12:57 am

        Pete (and everyone) – Note how Keith House has conveniently ignored your valid questions!

        Instead, he glibly claims that Poles ‘contribute to our wealth’, while failing to acknowledge that the majority of foreign nationals arrested for crime are immigrant Poles. (Romanians come second.)

        Shamefully, he next attacks ex-pat Brits for ‘draining the Spanish economy’ (!). On the contrary, I am sure Spain is indebted to them for paying taxes and buying goods and services. And we don’t see hundreds of Brits camping rough on Spanish streets, defecating in hedges between begging and picking pockets.

        On trade, as someone mentioned before, “they” need us more than we need them. There would be no difficulty in negotiating trade agreements. And remember our kith and kin in the Commonwealth, so shamefully cast aside – massive markets for reciprocal trade.

        Sick to death of the Liberals and fellow travellers routinely demonising valid comment as Little Englanders and racists. Thus they seek to stifle debate on one of the most important issues of the age.

        “Romanian and Bulgarian migrants could put huge pressure on housing, schools and hospitals”. “One in three of new births last year (nearly 70 per cent in London!) had at least one parent born overseas”. “Since 2000, the proportion of babies with foreign-born parents increased by half”. These comments don’t come from UKIP, Mr House! They are in yesterday’s report from the centre-Left Institute for Public Policy Research.

        Meanwhile, your own LibDem bumbler, Vince Cable, has just ‘contributed’ to the debate by again demonising those who demand action on uncontrolled immigration. He accuses the British public of being ‘schizophrenic’ for wanting curbs on immigration despite taking foreign holidays. How pathetic! How typically Liberal!

        He (and you) need to remember that Lib Dems have fewer than one in 10 seats in Parliament. AND you stand at just eight per cent in the polls, compared to UKIP’s 16 per cent! That’s what the people think of you and your policies.

        Truly a parasite party which admits it will ally itself with any other party for a vestige of power. Pass the sick bag, Alice!

  30. Mike Everingham on December 23, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    To all who object to this sign, I am turning right next next time at the general elections and will be voting UKIP, why ? because I have had enough of the three main parties. as they all talk with a fork tong.

    Leo

  31. Pete Stewart on December 23, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    WELL DONE MIKE. Join the club! Could I ask you to consider joining UKIP? You would not have to do any political activism. Just being a member is so important. Not only does it provide vital funds for leaflets to show people why Britain would be so much better off out of the EU, it is said that for every member who joins UKIP, 100 more vote UKIP. Therefore as UKIP’s membership rises, it sends an important signal to our political leaders that WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK. Santa … are you listening?

  32. Sam Snook on December 24, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    Sam Snook 24/12/2013

    UKIP EDF
    “When it happens-don’t forget, someone told you.
    Sam Snook

  33. Molly Bennett on December 24, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Mr House , was it not this coalition government which allowed so many of our productive factories to be sent abroad , indeed the ford factory was subsidized by the EU to move to turkey with moneys we pay in to their insatiable pot ,never mind the loss of hundreds of jobs for the people of Eastleigh and the loss of trade for the businesses who relied on the ford workers who used their shops,forcing the closure of many small businesses, the choice of shops now is very limited, never mind there is always the market….WHOOPS ..not any more! the Lib Dem council have taken it over and are renting the spaces to foreign traders Germany-France etc , no doubt the ground rent secured will up their council coffers and look good for the coming elections . Politics these days has become about CASH and who can secure the most before their lucrative retirement dawns , I do not tar all politicians with this particular smelly brush, Thankfully many have ditched those who persistently manipulate the truth in order to whitewash the public , and we in UKIP have welcomed their inside knowledge and expertise.Everyday now more and more of them are joining us and taking up the fight against the corrupt EU and YES helping us to get back the country we have fought for, and hopefully bring back the respect for Britain which has been lost in the greedy rush for the trough.

  34. Pete Stewart on December 24, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    Keith,

    INIQUITOUS ENTITLEMENT
    Once upon a time, people were entitled to own Negroes as property, proving the point that simply because people are entitled to something, doesn’t make it fair.

    QUESTION: You say EU migrants are entitled to benefits but do you believe that’s fair?

    THE CITY
    If the City is drifting to Frankfurt then that’s down to EU legislation and is a perfect example of why we must leave the EU.

    EU TRADE DEALS
    Don’t worry about leaving the EU! It would renegotiate a trade deal with us within hours. We buy around £10 billion more goods each year from EU countries than they buy from us. It would be unthinkable for the EU not to trade with Britain.

    IDEALISM
    I respect your idealism about a united Europe because in 1975 when I was just 18, I too shared the same idealism. There’s nothing wrong with EU idealism unless it blinds one to the devastating impact of EU globalism on the UK, in which case such idealism is demonstrably perverse.

    Finally, regardless of our political differences, in keeping with this Dickensian period, I offer the following farewell:

    “I’ll keep my Christmas humour to the last, so a Merry Christmas” Keith.

  35. D.G. on December 24, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Just remember everyone !! 12 million paid every day to the fat cats of EU overhead by brittian . Working over Xmas ? You know where your tax will go! Merry Xmas all.

  36. DJG on December 24, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    Flooding in Dorking !! Flooding keeps happening everywhere in the UK Mr Cameron and you and your government do nothing because you say we are all in it together and must pull our belts in but we give China money,oh yes they need it don’t they!! VOTE TIM MILLER UKIP and look after our own. I was a conservative all my life!! Take note.

  37. Pete Stewart on December 25, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Keith,

    INIQUITOUS ENTITLEMENT
    Once upon a time, people were entitled to own Negroes as property, proving the point that simply because people are entitled to something, doesn’t make it fair.

    QUESTION: You say EU migrants are entitled to benefits but do you believe that’s fair?

    THE CITY
    If the City is drifting to Frankfurt then that’s down to EU legislation and is a perfect example of why we must leave the EU.

    EU TRADE DEALS
    Don’t worry about leaving the EU! It would renegotiate a trade deal with us within hours. We buy around £10 billion more goods each year from EU countries than they buy from us. Thus it would be unthinkable for EU countries not to trade with Britain, as they do with other countries in the World.

    IDEALS
    I respect your idealism about a united Europe because in 1975 when I was just 18, I too shared the same idealism. There’s nothing wrong with EU idealism unless it blinds one to the devastating impact of EU globalism on the UK, in which case such idealism is demonstrably perverse.

    Finally, regardless of our political differences, I willingly say in this Dickensian period, I’ll keep my Christmas humour to the last, so a Merry Christmas, Keith.

  38. Ch on December 25, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    Yeh your right ,this lot that’s in are just not real. But back to mr Miller he’s so right lets all vote for him and show the Cameron’s what it’s like to lose your job . Ha ha

  39. Pete Stewart on December 26, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    KEITH,

    1) You say, “if people are entitled to benefits, they are entitled to benefits.” Are you saying “entitlement” makes it right to pay benefits to EU migrants?

    2) You’re concerned about the City drifting to Frankfurt and then. But that’s down to EU legislation and proves why Britain must leave the EU. Are you saying you believe we should stay in the EU to prevent the City drifting to Frankfurt?

    3) You are concerned about British trade when we leave the EU! Don’t be! The EU would re-negotiate a trade deal with Britain within HOURS. Britain buys around £10 Billion more goods per year from EU countries than they buy from us. Thus it would be disastrous for the EU not to secure a trade deal with Britain.

    4) Are you saying all those who vote UKIP because they want Britain to be governed by Britons, are “little Englanders” because of that?

    • Keith House on December 26, 2013 at 1:35 pm

      Where there are reciprocal arrangements on benefits yes of course Pete. “Fairness” is a basic concept, don’t you think? Your logic on trade is deeply flawed. Millions of UK jobs depend on our relationship with the rest of the EU. Remember “we are” the EU. It is not “us and them”. Research shows most UKIP voters vote UKIP because they are cross with government and concerned about jobs. It has little to do with Europe.

      • Matthew Myatt on December 26, 2013 at 11:27 pm

        O Mr House…

        Please do tell us what reciprocal benefits we would be entitled to in Poland or any other EU country that are the same as those offered to migrants here in the UK.?

        Housing benefit perhaps..! Nope
        Disability benefit perhaps..! Nope
        Sickness benefit perhaps..! Nope

        In fact, on a like for like basis, there are no benefits available to UK migrants in other EU countries.

        A BBC poll asked why people voted UKIP in 2011. It might interest you Mr House, that 82.76% said it was because they no longer wanted the UK to be in the EU.

        So once again you are both ill informed and incorrect in you rather predictable in you Fiberal Democrate response to Pete.

        Perhaps we need to see this again so we can all judge the honesty of your statments and knowledge on politics.. Hmmm.!!

        http://youtu.be/GQlgzGvjj3Q

  40. Molly Bennett on December 26, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    once again Mr Stewart trying to explain the simplicity of this message about our trade ( as you state above ) and the added benefits of an open door on WORLD TRADE! and not just the confines of the dictatorial EU just seems to drive some heads further into the sand.
    I dont know how many of you watched the queens speech? but I personally detected a veiled suggestion from her majesty that we and the commonwealth should certainly renew our relationship as we had so much to offer each other …Hmmmmmm. Perhaps her Majesty is showing the politicians way forward ?

  41. Pete Stewart on December 27, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Keith, So we agree that provided there is reciprocity, paying benefits to EU migrants is fair. Can we also agree the converse: Where there is not reciprocity, paying benefits is unfair?

    You say, “Millions of UK jobs depend on our relationship with the rest of the EU.”

    In truth the only jobs which depend on our relationship with the EU are MEPs and their staff, plus a few thousand people involved in maintaining aspects of our EU relationship.

    The three million jobs you mention, don’t depend on the EU, but on long standing relationships between business people in Britain and Europe.

    Let’s put your pessimistic scenario to the test!

    1) Britain leaves the EU.
    2) The EU bans British goods.
    3) Britain retaliates.

    Since we buy around £10 billion more goods per year from EU countries than they buy from us, they would lose far more in a trade war.

    But you are worrying needlessly. The instant we left the EU, it would immediately implement a pre-arranged trade deal with Britain, because it would have to secure stability for all those European manufacturing jobs which depend on sales to Britain.

    • Keith House on December 27, 2013 at 12:41 pm

      Pete, I’ve already given my views on benefits. The EU is not perfect, no system of governance is, but the alternatives are worse. Of course there would be a trade deal if the UK left the EU. We’d then be in the same position as Norway and Switzerland, subject to EU rules without being able to influence them. Fortunately this won’t happen. Most voters won’t vote to leave the EU, in much the same way that the Scots won’t vote to leave the UK.

  42. Pete Stewart on December 27, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Keith, Thank you for taking the time to engage in such informal debate but we shall have to agree to disagree on some things.

    Agreed: Paying benefits to EU migrants is fair provided there is reciprocity (which there isn’t for eastern EU countries).

    Agreed: No system of government is perfect but democracy is probably the best.

    Agreed: Scotland will vote to stay in the UK.

    Not agreed: How Britain will vote in an EU referendum. (I bet you £10 I’m right and Britain votes to leave)!

    Not agreed: I say democracy is infinitely better than the EU.

    • Matthew Myatt on December 28, 2013 at 11:38 am

      I will go one better. I will donate £100 to any charity you care to mention Mr House, if Scotland does not vote for independence and further, another £100 if the UK does not vote to leave the EU. Are you willing to put your money here your mouth is.??

      I am saving your quotes for future reference, might be very funny to revisit them in the near future.!

    • Keith House on December 28, 2013 at 4:40 pm

      I don’t gamble, Pete, but always good to debate!

  43. Sam Snook on January 1, 2014 at 10:16 pm

    UKIP’s trusted circle led by Nigel Farage is not UK’s withdrawal from the EU. They don’t have any intention of pursing that dream. For them, the
    EU is their best friend and source of unbelievable riches. And believe me when I say each one of them will fight to the bitter end to stay in the EU, to keep their seat in the European Parliament because that is their ultimate ticket to fleece British Taxpayers
    Happy New year
    Sam Snook

  44. Molly Bennett on January 2, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    so ,correct me if i am wrong Mr Snook but did you not join UKIP TWICE until the position you wanted was given to a man of serious and dedicated principle, IE getting us out of the EU, to which end he is seen to be fighting on a local front as well as a national one , and exposing the failures of the current politicians. sour grapes are blinding you sir?

  45. Sam Snook on January 2, 2014 at 5:05 pm

    Yes Mrs Bennett in 2005-at a meeting when I proposed that UKIP
    should go local. You and your sycophants, voted against my
    proposal. They wanted paper candidates and people to deliver them.

    At the County Council Elections 2013 I stood as UKIPs candidate.
    After the by/election-UKIP Chairman contacted me by phone and
    said we are standing you down, Andy Moore is a better candidate
    -than you. ( you are suggesting he is a man of serious and dedicated principle, ???? Time will tell the story!)

    Time will tell the truth
    Best Wishes
    Mr Samuel Snook
    Local Campaigner.

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