Tory Candidate defects to Ukip

John Edwards (L) welcomes Michael Read

John Edwards (L) welcomes Michael Read

Michael Read, the former Conservative candidate for Eastleigh Central ward who resigned from the Tory party at the weekend has now joined Ukip.

The retired Chandler’s Ford schoolteacher was welcomed by the Chairman of Ukip’s Winchester branch John Edwards.

Michael Read said he was ‘relieved’ to be joining Ukip:

“I haven’t changed my views at all but the conservative party has gone way too far to the left

“Ukip are not as they have been described  – just a bunch of loons – I have got to know them they are good people.”

Read was the Deputy Chairman (political) of Eastleigh Conservative Association.

A graduate of Portsmouth University he has been involved in politics for a long time having joined the Conservatives in 1959.

His great-grandfather was Sir Edwin Cornwall a Liberal politician and Minister of Health Insurance in Lloyd George’s wartime cabinet as well as serving as deputy speaker.

A speaker of Spanish, Read is married to a Peruvian and their son is currently in Spain working as a missionary -the family are Mormons.

Indeed, Read’s Mormon beliefs meant, he said, that he could not accept the legalisation of same sex marriage under the Conservatives.

Edwards_Read

Read says he thinks there could be further defections.

“I’m sure more conservatives will follow because Ukip is not just a party blowing hot air.”

“In all campaigns I’ve been involved in the last few years the majority of people involved in them have been from Ukip”

In a special message to David Cameron Read said:

“It’s too late for you now There is no future in flip-flopping.”

“There has to be drastic changes and there is no one currently in the conservative party with the strength to do something about it”

John Edwards who himself defected from the English Democrats last year said:

“I’d like to welcome Michael to the party.

“We are very pleased he has changed the allegiance he has had since a young man to Ukip, it demonstrates how out of the touch that not only the Conservative, but all the main parties have become.

“That’s why its not only the Conservatives joining Ukip, people are flocking to Ukip because we share the same values – we all want our country back.

“Come May there will be a political sea change, not only with the European elections but also the local elections”.

Read says that althogh he hopes to contest a local seat as a Ukip candidate he wants to stay good friends with former conservative colleagues.

Not all his former Tory friends feel the same though.

One local senior party member – who did not wish to be named- told Eastleigh News.

“He always was on the fringes of the party.

“He’s not representative of the majority of grassroots activists, but rather holds some very extreme and occasionally, offensive views.

“Frankly, I think the party will be better off without him.”

See also:

Tory Candidate Resigns

Local English Democrat Chairman defects to Ukip

Former  Eastleigh Mayor joins Ukip

Photos ©eastleighnews 2014

  69 comments for “Tory Candidate defects to Ukip

  1. Pete Stewart
    January 22, 2014 at 7:34 am

    Well done Michael! It requires great courage to lead and great courage to quit the Conservative Party. Above all it requires the courage of your convictions! Someone must lead in any reformation. You have started it for true conservatives in Eastleigh and I hop others will follow. All will be welcome and the input of experience will make UKIP stronger still. If we want to see true conservatism (with a small “c”) restored in Britain, and that means leaving the EU and governing ourselves, then big changes are needed and many more people will have no option but to leave the Party which misleadingly describes itself as “conservative”. Well done again!

    • John Milne
      January 22, 2014 at 11:45 am

      Michael Read was the serving Deputy Chairman Political at the time he quit the party and moved to UKIP, if he was on the fringe of the party and out of touch with the grass roots why was he promoted to that position where he would be interacting with those grassroots? I am a former chairman of Eastleigh Conservative Association and never had any complaints about Michael holding views that were offensive to any member or out of touch with the other activists and we were happy for him to stand as a candidate representing us, indeed he was due to stand for the conservatives in May this year.

      Michael is an honest man and is prepared to stand up for what he believes, I find the actions of the ‘senior local party member’ very telling in that they are prepared to have a go at Michael on a public forum but feel it necessary to withhold their identity.

      When Michael resigned he stated that he felt out of touch with central office and made no criticism of the local association, its activists or its members. In a democratic society we must accept that the views of others may differ from our own and have the humility to accept that our own views may not always be correct

      I therefore wish to Michael all the best for the future and to thank him for his service to the party and to Maria Hutchings’ General Election campaign.

      John Milne

      • January 28, 2014 at 7:10 pm

        ^^a breath of fresh air…congratulations to you John for a well written piece.

  2. January 22, 2014 at 7:40 am

    The question for the local Conservatives is now, why did they select a candidate with offensive views in the first place and how many of their remaining local candidates have similar offensive views?

    • January 22, 2014 at 3:34 pm

      Before now, there obviously was not a problem. Now Michael has left and come to UKIP, I think its a case of sour grapes and a matter of having no honour.

      Fair play though to John Milne with his kind comments. Lets give credit where it is due.

      • January 22, 2014 at 5:58 pm

        I would endorse fully those sentiments Mr Edwards , and may i add my sincere respects to John Milne for having the good grace to respect a man who has done so much work for the party locally,( John this is the act of a conservative i once respected and valued , if only they were all as respectful and honest as yourself and Maria ) . It has not gone unnoticed by the people of Eastleigh how badly we have been let down and lied to from those in higher positions in the conservative party and the Lib Dems . My reasons for joining UKIP 18 years ago are similar to Mike and I am very happy that we in Ukip can welcome him aboard and look forward to his wisdom and passion in sharing our aims , To get our country back to a dignified and honourable Britain that we can be proud of again .

  3. January 22, 2014 at 8:12 am

    You are very Welcome Mr Read.

  4. Michale O'Donoghue
    January 22, 2014 at 8:40 am

    Well done Michael – and welcome to the UKIP team. Daily we see more and more individuals previously clinging to long standing beliefs that the parties they joined were fit for purpose – realising now that they are all the same – insofar as prmoting ideals at odds with grass root opinions. UKIP stands as it always has – a beacon for everyone looking for positive change – and I hope Michael that more of your colleagues will join with you and come aboard with us in UKIP.

  5. John
    January 22, 2014 at 8:47 am

    It hurts to abandon a party one has supported for a lifetime but boy isn’t it necessary now! Refreshing too. Being honest and not having to make excuses for the harm self serving politicians have done and daily do, theoretically in our names to this once great nation is so envigourating.

  6. Sue
    January 22, 2014 at 10:09 am

    Apart from leaving the EU what are the UKIP values? The EU has become a massive issue for many across the political spectrum but where does UKIP stand on other issues? On welfare? NHS privatisation?

    • Leon Kennedy
      January 22, 2014 at 12:52 pm

      when the UK leaves the EU and imposes a ban on foreigners coming into the country or drawing benefits there will be plenty of jobs & benefits ffor hardworking British familys and lower taxes and free nhs treatment and plenty of cheap houses

      • January 23, 2014 at 7:46 am

        UKIP show no signs of wanting to maintain free NHS treatment. They have variously said they want to accelerate the Lib Dem/Tory dismantling and privatisation of the NHS, force people to take out private health insurance, and allow those who can afford it to pay to “jump the queue”.

        • wavatar
          Eastleigh Xpress
          January 23, 2014 at 10:29 am

          You mean they are fundamentally Thatcherite? I wonder if that is the attraction of Ukip to Tories who loathe Cameron because he isn’t one?

          • January 23, 2014 at 11:12 am

            Therein lies the problem with UKIP.

            People rightly connect them with the idea of wanting to withdraw from Europe, which would be good, but if they were elected nationally in 2015, what else would we get from UKIP…?

            They need to do a lot more work to get those policies across…

            • January 23, 2014 at 3:07 pm

              Keith, thats not quite right. If you look at what UKIP says on the NHS, you will see that it wants to maintain the principles of the NHS from when it was founded, as many people from all parties do. Yes the party are looking at other models from overseas in an effort to provide the best for the nation. Providing options for people that also include the right to private medicine isn’t dismantling the NHS. it is my personal opinion that because successive govts have failed the country with economic mismanagement, we all may have to face the prospect that theres..’no free lunch’ anymore with GP’s now suggesting that we may have to pay to visit them along with a trip to A&E. I hope this does not come about, but the country is broke and is living on credit.

              • January 23, 2014 at 4:31 pm

                John, there is a world of difference between people having the right to use private healthcare (which they already do) and forcing them to take out private insurance to access NHS care, which is what UKIP propose.

                And do you really believe the UK is more “broke” in 2014 than it was in the 40s when the NHS was founded?

    • January 22, 2014 at 1:29 pm

      UK welfare policy is dictated by the EU’s open border policy, NHS policy is dicated by EU’s open border policy, EU health policy and EU procurement polcy… etc.

      If you want any say over any UK policy, first the UK has to leave the EU.

      Unless we leave the EU very soon, we will be in for ever – and you will never have any say over any of this. You will just have to take what the EU tells us.

      Vote UKIP in 2015 – get us out of the EU – then vote for which ever party supports the policies you want (whether UKIP or not)

    • January 22, 2014 at 3:27 pm

      Hello Sue, if you go this web address, our national party’s website, you will find your answers. http://www.ukip.org/
      Please feel free to contact any of us for further information.

      • Rigel
        January 23, 2014 at 9:25 pm

        so climate change is not happening then John , seems that is UKIP’s policy

    • January 22, 2014 at 3:50 pm

      Can’t be bothered to find out for yourself? it’s all on their website, a full range of policies some of which already being stolen by Cameron.

  7. Michael Read
    January 22, 2014 at 11:55 am

    So it’s offensive to disagree with same sex marriage, is it? Just a correction. My great-grandfather was a cabinet minister in the 1930s

    • wavatar
      Eastleigh Xpress
      January 22, 2014 at 12:16 pm

      Ok ” Lloyd George knew my (Great- Grand) Father: (Great-Grand) Father knew Lloyd George.
      or perhaps not – I took info from Wiki – I’ll check it again.
      According to ‘They work for you’ which references parliamentary records he was an MP from 1906 – 1922.

      • Michael Read
        January 22, 2014 at 11:00 pm

        I stand corrected. My memory let me down!

  8. Gold Price
    January 22, 2014 at 4:36 pm

    In May 2013, Stephan Shakespeare , the CEO of YouGov analysed the reasons for the strong support and performance of UKIP in the 2013 local elections . He observed that voter research showed UKIP had “very loyal” followers, with a high proportion of ex-Conservative voters, and that the primary reason for support was a sense by voters that UKIP “seemed to be on the same wavelength” as the population, was perceived as “genuine” and “simply different”, and by tapping into the “anti-politics mood” became contrasted strongly with “the others [who] haven’t got a clue about the real world”. He concluded that “you just don’t get this [perception] with other party leaders, not even from their supporters”. Noting also that 23% of voters reported giving “serious consideration” to voting UKIP, and that non-UKIP voters were “only half as likely to mention immigration or Europe” as existing UKIP voters, he also concluded that these potential voters were “best won” by providing a “broad agenda”.

  9. January 22, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    With many people in the UK forced to use food banks, I find the concept of the Tories ‘moving to the left’ a little strange.

    I guess they’ve moved left on some things, such as same-sex Marriage, and much further right on others…

  10. January 22, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    Gold Price , not sure how much broader you want UKIP to be than to give the people of this country the right to vote on who rules us ? Many Many more voters are asking the question Why will the 3 main parties not let us have the vote on the in or out of the EU , but happily agree and even support the Scottish peoples right to a vote on their independence !

  11. Pete Stewart
    January 22, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    Is the Conservative Party dead or just resting?

    • January 22, 2014 at 10:18 pm

      Peter, at this time, I think the Conservative Party is dying a slow and painful death at this time, as are the other two (LibLab). Any likely redemption for them may come about through a realignment of their parties and policies, but not before they have been forsaken at the polls.

      Granted, there will be good results for them where someone has been active and actually served the electorate. Who could dismiss such a thing. There will also be the ‘tribal vote’ where those who follow them will always vote the same way for whatever reason.

      Those people have have not bothered to vote because they see it as a wasted vote because nothing changes, will be the deciding factor at the polls. Many times, that missing number of electorate has been the factor that could win an election, but not only for UKIP when its close run.

      We live in ‘interesting and turbulent’ times where our nation needs to forgo the mantle of foreign rule by unelected eurocrats. To recover our national sanity and pride. LibLabCon do not offer this to the people of our country. Its time to retake the ownership of our country and forge our own destiny.

      • Sam
        January 23, 2014 at 4:42 pm

        John, I’m sorry you are talking about polices,
        not a Manifesto.
        Regards
        Sam

        • Sam Snook.
          January 23, 2014 at 9:02 pm

          UKIP do not have a Manifesto.
          Thank YOU!
          Sam Snook.

  12. January 23, 2014 at 10:52 pm

    Oh my gosh. Not even Farage knows what UKIP stand for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek159wmiB3E&feature=player_embedded

  13. Pete Stewart
    January 24, 2014 at 9:56 am

    Keith,

    I watched the video but it was a bit of a let-down.

    All I saw was Nigel in his usual refreshing way, freely admitting he has not laboured over the minutiae of some vast, obsolete policy document from 2010. All that is now obsolete.

    UKIP now has professionals formulating all aspects of policy and as Nigel said, the 2014 manifesto will be appearing soon. The 2015 manifesto will be appearing next year.

    Once it’s published I’m sure Nigel will be aware of its contents. Before then, it would be difficult for him to know its contents despite his great powers.

    • January 24, 2014 at 1:37 pm

      The problem is Pete that when people in this thread asked what UKIP stand for, your colleagues referred them to your website. Then your leader goes on TV and disowns what is on the website.

      The only policy he seems sure of is that he wants to deploy the army to suppress popular protest. Doesn’t bode well for civil liberties if a UKIP government is ever elected.

  14. maureen
    January 24, 2014 at 1:11 pm

    and how long before the next manifesto is ditched? Love is blind!

  15. Michael Read
    January 24, 2014 at 7:19 pm

    I should like to thank all those who have wished me well, both here and personally, as I have made this difficult decision to leave a party for which I have worked so hard for over half a century. However, the sad truth is that the party left me rather than the other way round.

    Many of my friends have asked what these extreme and offensive views are that I’m supposed to hold as, to put in the words of one friend: “And by the way Mike’s possibly the least offensive person I know!”

    So, many thanks to all of you.

  16. Pete Stewart
    January 24, 2014 at 7:50 pm

    UKIP’S MANIFESTO

    The Taxpayers Alliance calculates Britain would be £125 BILLION (£125,000,000,000) better off each year by leaving the EU.

    Assuming 92 counties in the United Kingdom, that means each county would be £1.3 Billion better off each year.

    A manifesto is essentially a glorified sales brochure listing as many beneficiaries as possible (to win as many votes as possible).

    UKIP’s problem has always been that there would be so many beneficiaries from leaving the EU, how on earth do you even begin to cover them all in a manifesto that’s sufficiently brief to be read by the electorate?

    Consider what Hampshire could do with the CUMULATIVE benefits of £1.3 Billion invested here in Hampshire every year for the next decade! Think of the improvements to our infrastructure! Think of how we could improve our roads, drainage, refuse collection, schools, hospitals etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

    Think what we could do for our State Pension! The list goes on and on until you realize that to produce a costed manifesto is no 5 minute wonder.

    Unfortunately it seems the public do not quite grasp the enormity of this. Most people cannot even conceive of £1 million, let alone £1 Billion. Then to consider the cumulative benefits over a decade is quite beyond the grasp of most people.

    But those cumulative benefits are not only possible, they would be a reality if we elected a UKIP government and left the EU. Within a decade, Britain would be transformed into the country we all wish it could be.

    And if all this talk of benefits for others doesn’t grab you, how about considering your own income tax! Think of how much that could be reduced by effectively injecting another £125 Billion of cash into our system!

    So I say again, WELL DONE MICHAEL FOR JOINING UKIP!

    • wavatar
      Eastleigh Xpress
      January 24, 2014 at 9:54 pm

      How much will Hampshire lose in payments made under CAP? How much more tax will lower rate income tax payers have to pay if Ukip introduce a flat rate tax?

  17. Pete Stewart
    January 25, 2014 at 12:24 am

    QUESTION 1: HOW MUCH WOULD HAMPSHIRE LOSE IN CAP PAYMENTS?

    ANSWER: Whatever Hampshire would lose in CAP payments, it would gain 12.5 times as much in other investment. Here’s why.

    Annual EU benefits comprise:

    a) EU rebate (£8 Billion),
    b) exemption from Common External Tariff (£2 Billion).

    So Britain’s total EU benefits equal £10 Billion annually.

    The Taxpayers Alliance calculates the cost of those benefits at £125 Billion annually. That’s a benefit to cost ratio of 1 to 12.5! That’s a lousy deal!

    Put another way, that £125 Billion invested in the EU shrinks to only £10 Billion by the close of the investment period.

    What sort of a crackpot financial advisor would advise you to do that? Answer: The Coalition. And they do it year after year. No wonder the country is broke.

    With a benefits to cost ratio of 1 to 12.5, clearly whatever CAP payments Hampshire currently gets, the cost to the County is 12.5 times greater. The sooner we leave the EU, the richer Hampshire will be.

    QUESTION 2: HOW MUCH MORE TAX WOULD LOWER RATE TAX PAYERS HAVE TO PAY UNDER A FLAT RATE?

    Answer: Whatever the flat rate, personal allowances would protect the least well off.

    • wavatar
      Eastleigh Xpress
      January 25, 2014 at 3:24 pm

      I’m actually querying CAP payments to Hampshire famers/landowners not the UK rebate.

      Re income tax it seems flat rate = tax cuts for wealthy along with scrapping inheritance tax – assuming that these 2010 Ukip policies aren’t just ‘drivel’!

  18. Rigel
    January 25, 2014 at 12:35 am

    1. There is 138 counties in the UK , 100 if you dump scotland s38 w21 ni8 e 71 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_of_the_United_Kingdom

    2.The Public Accounts Committee’s warning came as the newly-released whole government accounts report said the UK’s deficit in 2011-2012 was £185 billion, http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/12/uk-deficit-figures_n_4430765.html

    1bn = .675% of our yearly deficit spend, but you think were gonna spend our ‘savings’ on rainbows and lollipops …ahem I mean hospitals and drains. LOL

    The deficit is created by Gilt sales , Gilt value on leaving EU might well crash, but its the BoE buying most of them so ….. that can just carry on can it ?

    4. It’s not a 5 minute job no , because you can alienate voters more than you attract them , so the cumulative benefits of a countrywide ‘saving of 125.bn are probably about … minus125bn

    5. Eastleigh makes 95k p/a from CAP (2012)…there are 6 beneficiaries , two private ones AJ Russel 30k , Mortimers 15K the others are … wait for it…….
    HAMPSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL (257424) 18K
    Fair Oak and HH Parish council £747
    Twyford Parish council 5k

    and …..

    The Grasslands Trust in partnership with EBC (quel surprise) a whopping 41K

    thats EU money , Eexps = where the F is that field ? it’s not stoneham is it ? (http://cap-payments.defra.gov.uk/SearchResults.aspx search eastleigh)

    Q: is this saving real , is it a cash injection ?
    A: No

    Q: Would voting UKIP and leaving europe transform the country in any positive financial way ……. No

    addendum
    Q :would everyone spending one hour a week doing what I just did for an hour , ie researching the facts behind politics transform the country
    A: Yes

    Q:Is any political party ever going to do anything for you
    A: No

    For democracy to work you need informed voters and we don’t have any.

    Face it folks , we have to solve our problems ourselves, …..anyone ?

    • Sue
      January 27, 2014 at 3:16 pm

      it is complicated! I think that maybe we are kept in the dark deliberately because then the same old systems carry on virtually unchallenged really. I agree with you Rigel that we citizens need to educate ourselves politically because until we do the powers that be can push and shove us in virtually any direction they like. As regards the EU I really do need to educate myself because I read so many contradictory “facts” that my head aches! As regards UKIP and their policies other than the EU I’m none the wiser having checked out the web page.

      • Rigel
        January 27, 2014 at 6:45 pm

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MOA_Y3MKE

        this is a yale course on the moral foundations of politics and I loved it , it might be your thing too

        • Sue
          February 5, 2014 at 12:18 pm

          Rigel I have bookmarked this for future viewing —- yes it does look interesting thank you

  19. Pete Stewart
    January 26, 2014 at 11:34 am

    Hmmm!

    OK!

    Here’s the deal you get with the EU:

    1) EU COMMON AGRICULTURAL POLICY
    Comparing Britain’s annual CAP Costs (£17 billion) with our annual CAP receipts (£3.3 billion) means every £5 we give, we get back £0.97.

    2) EU CONTRIBUTIONS
    Comparing Britain’s annual EU Contributions (£19 billion) with our annual EU rebate (£5 billion) means every £5 we give, we get back £1.31.

    So on average, for every £5 we give to the EU, we get back £1.14.

    FOR EASTLEIGH NEWS READERS WHO THINK THAT’S A GOOD DEAL, I CAN DO EVEN BETTER.

    For every £5 Eastleigh News readers invest with me, I guarantee to give them £2 at the end of the year. If you are not delighted with the returns, then I promise to give you 50p as a goodwill gesture.

    Now THAT’S what I call a good deal. It’s certainly twice as good as the EU.

    Surely the idea must take off so I intend to start a PLC and invite the UK Government to invest Britain’s £19 billion EU Contributions into my PLC instead.

    The benefit to the UK taxpayer will be enormous! Instead of getting back just £5 billion in rebates, I would absolutely guarantee to give back £10 billion! So the UK would be £5 billion better off investing in my PLC than in the EU.

    As for income tax, why should those who earn more, pay a higher % of tax?

    And why should people pay inheritance tax?

    • wavatar
      Eastleigh Xpress
      January 26, 2014 at 8:54 pm

      You are saying cost of of EU to UK is £19 billion annually but in the latest edition of ‘How much does the EU cost Britain” by Ukip MEP Gerard Batten – he says the net cost to the UK annually is £6.8 billion.

      Who is right here?

  20. Pete Stewart
    January 26, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Rigel, Rigel, Rigel!

    There are 92 counties proper in the UK, more if you include “administrative”, “ceremonial”, “judicial” and “postal” counties.

    If you’re correct that the UK budget deficit for 2011/12 was £185 billion and that £1 billion = 0.675% of our annual deficit expenditure, then it follow that £125 billion = 125 x 0.675 = 84% of our annual deficit expenditure. Do you mean you don’t think it would be good to leave the EU and make that saving?

  21. Rigel
    January 26, 2014 at 10:18 pm

    1 it’s not if I am correct,.. I provide links ,.it’s if they are right, I do it to help the reader check my ‘facts’ if you could do the same it would be appreciated.

    2 . my point is you cant claim that all our problems go away by simply leaving the eu , even if we got no investment by the EU as it is now, the saving by leaving would not even bring us out of our yearly deficit.

    so are we getting the hospitals and drains and running at the same deficit, or are we going to stop borrowing. and then what about our Debt is it business as usual in the city for UKIP ?

    3 the rebate is 2/3rds of the CAP shortfall so your points 1 & 2 are kind of using the same money twice , because we get such a raw deal on CAP we get the rebate.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm This means neither of your ‘we give £5’ scenarios are accurate the first ignores the rebate, and the second ignores everything but the rebate. then you average them so you can use the phrase ‘on average’ if both figures are wrong then the average of the two is just as wrong. Do you check the soundbytes that come out of head office ?

    4 Denmark sells over £4bn worth of Bacon to us each year http://www.danishcrown.com/Danish-Crown/FAQ/Facts.aspx and they give 3% extra to fund our rebate , that bacon in our supermarket is cheap and it’s a benefit of CAP. yes the EU bureaucrats are all bums, but the guys and gals in westminster, winchester and leigh road are just as bad. eastleigh could complain that it gives hampshire a disproportionate amount each year for roads because the upkeep of country roads generally is more expensive than eastleighs ….etc… but would it really make sense to suggest eastleigh leaves hampshire = all problems disappear , it’s purile.

    5 Why should people who earn more pay a,greater share of tax ?, (graduated is the phrase)http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Graduated+income+tax because they have a comparatively large disposable income after their costs whereas low earners pay most of their money on food and bills ,the high earners are paying more of the income tax component of EU membership than the low earners , isn’t that fair ? I bet I pay more of the VAT component than anyone else reading this. Pete , are you retired , if you are, you probably pay bugger all so who ya kidding with the jack and the beanstalk economics

    Inheritance Tax ? why should anyone pay any tax – I don’t know because the state harms you if you don’t , I didn’t invent the game , don’t blame me !

    UKIP has a simplistic and consequentialist dogma ie if we do this , then this will happen and, as I say, it’s rainbows and lollipops from there on.

    It is rhetoric which appeals to people of very little education..,it’s no basis for a revolution , truth is, if we escaped europe some another bunch of bureaucrats would hoover up the the left over indulgences instantly, and oh that’s right it would be the UKIPpers with their heads in the trough first , bringing home the (now less heavily subsidized ) bacon.

    we need an ethical basis for politics ie… I thinks it’s right to do this ….because I think it’s right ….but I don’t know what will happen in the future because that is not possible.

    does your PLC pay anything collecting the money off of us or do we just hand it over , where do you keep it ? any security or insurance charges. does your PLC pay UK Tax ?….

  22. January 26, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    Pete, do you agree with your leader that the gun controls brought in after the Dunblane massacre are “ludicrous”?

  23. Pete Stewart
    January 27, 2014 at 10:08 pm

    Well I’m right about the GROSS EU Contributions being £19 billion now and Gerard Batten was right when he wrote about the NET EU Contributions being £6.8 billion back in 2009.

    I always quote GROSS EU Contributions (the total paid to the EU) because that’s what the Treasury loses control of.

    Thereafter whatever comes back into British pockets is in the hands of the EU and it never goes where British tax payers would want it to go.

    That’s why the NET EU Contributions figure is so misleading.

    I’m not sure of the exact figure, I think it’s a bit more than £19 Billion. As a matter of interest the net figure is now just short of £11 Billion.

    The figures are (as you would expect with anything to do with the EU) a lot more complicated than this. But these are a reasonably accurate guide I believe.

  24. Pete Stewart
    January 27, 2014 at 10:29 pm

    Rigel, my most esteemed fellow [check flattery not too obvious]

    My PLC would not charge you a penny and I guarantee it would pay all taxes due under UK tax law.

    STAGE 1: You effortlessly pay as much of your money as possible into the designated RBS account of my PLC [quick glance in mirror to ensure smile is not too cynical].

    STAGE 2: You sit back and relax for a year while your investment matures.

    STAGE 3: After 1 year, for every £5 you have invested in my account, I would give you at least £2 with the possibility of a handsome 50 pence bonus if I don’t meet that promise.

    DISCLAIMER [quick attempt to write small print in 1 point Arial]

    Investors should be aware that payments are subject to market variations and may go up or down, depending on the value of any residual funds remaining after any bonuses have been paid to the directors, one of whom shall be a Church Minister.

  25. Pete Stewart
    January 27, 2014 at 10:54 pm

    Hello Keith (Day),

    The Guardian quoted Nigel out of context.

    He actually said Blair’s gun controls were ludicrous because they forced our own Olympic pistol team to practice abroad.

    I agree.

    Nigel added that gun crime doubled in the 5 years following the ban. Has the ban stopped criminals owning hand guns.

    But are we not drifting off topic? This is supposed to be about the Deputy Chairman Political of Eastleigh Conservative Association joining UKIP.

  26. Pete Stewart
    January 28, 2014 at 8:41 am

    SUE re your comment Jan 27 at 3:16 pm

    You said,
    “As regards the EU I really do need to educate myself because I read so many contradictory “facts” that my head aches!

    There may be an easy way out of your problem.

    As regards the EU there are three broad groups of people:

    (1) Those who support the EU because they make money from it,

    (2) Those who support the EU because they believe in the romantic ideology of a “unified” Europe but do not make any money out of it,

    (3) Those who oppose the EU because they neither make money from it, nor believe a “unified” Europe is possible.

    Each of the groups will offer you conflicting advice.

    In the 1970s I belonged to the 2nd group: Those who made no money from the EU but believed that a “unified” Europe was possible.

    Now I belong to the 3rd group, as do most people who belonged to the 2nd group in the 1970s.

    Perhaps the questions you should ask are not so much the “facts” about the EU, but what your instincts tell you about it and why so many people have switched from the 2nd group to the 3rd group.

    One very important question you need to answer, possibly the first question is: Why has the EU Court of Auditors refused to approve the EU accounts for more than 16 consecutive years?

  27. Rigel
    January 28, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    Add a 4th group for me and others like me, we think that in our daily lives whether the UK is in the EU is not that important , it is a wedge issue , a policy that brings emotive and abstract concepts into a consequential framework…. and it is a waste of political effort, our problems will be exactly the same after the UKIP revolution, so it is not a revolution .We are ruled by tyrants at every level and to say we leave the EU and everything becomes great is snake oil and misdirection..

    Bla Bla Bla this once great nation….. you get votes by appealing to xenophobia and a jaded sense of national importance , on the doorstep your spiel is about immigrants not economics

    Where are the Bulgarians Pete ? and are they taking our jobs or our benefits because it can’t be both can it.

    once again I want you to confirm that UKIPs policy is as if climate change doesn’t exist …….. waiting …..

    as always thanks for having the debate and all the best

    • JCM
      January 29, 2014 at 3:26 pm

      Crikey Rigel. . .Sounds like you are in the Let’s Give Up party ! This is the perfect appathetic attitude that the E U and those who abuse democracy thrive upon. It’s funny how those who condemn “emotive and abstract concepts” Bla Bla Bla , then proceed to provide us with their own versions of the same!
      By the way, for anyone who suggests they reliy on facts and nothing but the facts, the 2nd paragraph in your latest contribution seems particularly some what unballanced and in my view, not at all a correct assessment of UKIP’s appeal or it’s aims. Strikes me,the more insults and put downs that have come the party’s way, the more the membership grows!

      • Rigel
        January 30, 2014 at 7:12 pm

        Hi JCM , I can’t really provide a reference for what UKIP canvassers said to me on my doorstep but heres a good example of what I mean:

        http://www.electionleaflets.org/leaflets/7680/

        Imagine if you are 10 and your mum is Bulgarian … would the kid not think that someone in the town doesn’t like Bulgarians. Or there is something wrong with that country.

        That leaflet is disgusting to me because it is spreading fear , it is making people fear some flood of eastern europeans and it makes eastern europeans and other immigrants live in fear of their neighbours. I have made several criticisms of the UKIP position on this comments thread and no UKIPper has made any attempt at a credible defense of any of them.

        Lets give up ! hardly mate , I’m the ‘won’t be fooled again’ party, calling me appathetic (sic) is so wrong, I want to fight but I want to fight the real enemy ….the people need you misinformed UKIPpers to help our revolution, but we need you to be , at least partially, based in reality.

        Lenin’s slogan was ‘peace , bread , land’ whatever you think of where socialism ended up, that was a proper revolution , he stopped the war , fed the people and divvied up the land.

        at the moment you serve to further split a fragmented electorate – the emotive subject of immigration is divisive , it sets brother against brother and the idea of a national pride is abstract

        if you think I’m using emotive and abstract concepts fine but it would help if you say what they are and perhaps why you see them as unwarranted.

        It is only because LibLabCon are such corrupt liars that UKip seem a credible alternative , and I would like to show that they are at best more of the same and at worse much more dangerous.

        JCM – where are the Bulgarians ?
        …….- confirm your policy on climate change to me here on this public forum. – you might be surprised how I respond.

        thanks for the response and best wishes.

  28. Sam Snook
    January 28, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    SO now Nigle has disowned it’s entire Manifesto and Nigel has openly stated that his party won’t issue a new one, ahead of the May elections
    where does this leave prospective UKIP Voters. So are they merely saying “Elect us to Brussels Gravy Train- we profess to hate so much, and trust us. Because if so, their MEP track record don’t offer up much cause for UKIP/
    Sam Snook

  29. Pete Stewart
    January 30, 2014 at 10:17 pm

    JCM
    Re your comment January 29, 2014 at 3:26 pm

    You observed,

    “…the more insults and put downs that have come the party’s (UKIP’s) way, the more the membership grows!”

    More like the bigger UKIP becomes, the more those support the EU use insults and put-downs.

  30. January 30, 2014 at 11:12 pm

    Ah, the membership. According to Farage you’re the wrong people!

  31. Pete Stewart
    January 31, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    What’s Nigel said to have said this time?

    Regardless, people like him for his refreshing straightforwardness when reporters ask him questions. Very few politicians answer directly. Nigel is one and Michael Read (about whom this article is written) is another.

  32. Pete Stewart
    February 1, 2014 at 12:29 pm

    RIGEL (re your comment January 30th at 7:12 p.m.)

    Don’t blame UKIP! Blame the present and past governments for spreading fear! Open-EU-borders destroy British jobs and spread fear.

    Don’t praise Lenin without showing the downside of communism, or you will appear like that increasing number of young Germans who speak admiringly of Hitler’s “good points” while forgetting to mention the War!

    You say national pride pits brother against brother. No! It unites workers! That’s why EU-globalists try so hard to destroy it.

    You say “LibLabCon are such corrupt liars”. We in UKIP disagree. We find most LibDems, Labour and Conservatives are decent, honest people. Perhaps you mean some of their national leaders who never answer reporters’ questions. Compare them to Nigel Farage who always answers directly.

    You ask, “where are the Bulgarians?” Were you expecting a mass immigration in the first month? Market forces dictate such immigration will proceed slowly, in proportion to demand, which is bound to be suppressed at this juncture for several reasons including:

    a) we are emerging from a long recession and employers are cautious about changing staff even though the latest Bulgarian and Rumanian labour seems to be “cheaper,

    b) there is a risk of a British backlash against businesses perceived to be profiteering from cheap EU labour while so many of our young workers are unemployed.

    • wavatar
      Eastleigh Xpress
      February 5, 2014 at 8:41 am

      “Market forces dictate such immigration will proceed slowly, in proportion to demand”

      Is that unreasonable then? Immigration that is proportional to demand?

    • Rigel
      February 7, 2014 at 12:20 pm

      Borders were historically open though pete it is an entirely modern idea to have passport control and the like,

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_Restriction_%28Amendment%29_Act_1919

      were open eu borders destroying jobs during the industrial revolution? or after the black death,

      are we all still traumatized by the vikings ? .

      One hundred years ago anyone could arrive in the UK and get on with their new lives without any official bureaucracy whatever.

      Millions of people fled famine or persecution to come here and make the great nation , only since joining europe have we started to moan not because more came but because only after the post war recruitment of immigrants from the colonies were any records kept.

      Prior to that we did our moaning with pitchforks in the night, the more fearful and deranged of us expressed our fear by pulling immigrants out of their beds at night and hanging them.

      If you look with a perspective of 30 years the leaflet cited above seems almost acceptable , but if you know more about our history it becomes extreme nationalism, it becomes far right propaganda.

      The sewers you foul , the train lines you ride , the canals you cycle along, even the houses of parliament I suspect were built, in some part, by foreign workers with no official status who may or may not have ended up staying here,

      I will respond to your further sentences later if I may,

      it is becoming apparent that the further we go down this journey into , what I see as ‘the falsehoods of a UKIP mindset’ the weaker your case gets , I want you to consider defecting now and help me debunk the UKIP xenophobes.

      Your leaflet was an insult to my proud xenia

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenia_%28Greek%29

      EU membership is an irrelevance , it’s a sideshow, a distraction from the real political questions of the age and it seems to me that the people that vote for you just don’t know how many immigrants there are in their ancestry ,

      it is not worth upsetting one half bulgarian 10 yr old , geddit ?

      once again UKIPpers can you confirm to me on this public forum UKIPs policy on climate change please.

  33. Sam Snook
    February 6, 2014 at 3:33 pm

    Ukip’s EFD Group is calling for the accession of the Ukraine into the EU,
    which holds vast implications for the UK taxpayers, should this be achieved.
    Sam Snook.

  34. Pete Stewart
    February 7, 2014 at 10:25 pm

    Eastleigh News (re comment Feb 5, 2014 at 8:41 am)

    You ask, “Is that unreasonable then? Immigration that is proportional to demand?”

    I say ALL demand for “cheap labour” is unreasonable on the principle that it is indefensible to destroy British jobs without the express consent of the British people.

    • wavatar
      Eastleigh Xpress
      February 8, 2014 at 1:55 pm

      Demand for cheap labour is unreasonable? Do you think raising the minimum wage will create more jobs and stop immigration then?

  35. Rigel
    February 11, 2014 at 12:44 am

    Actually the demand is for skilled labour , not cheap labour , skills at a discount is what eastern europe provides , hard working, decent, skilled people come here because there is demand. The prime reason there is such demand is our failure to practically educate the less well off 25% of our young people. Corporate UK has successfully created a throng of consumptive zombies but as workers many British young people goofed off at school drink and smoke a lot and are now unemployable..

    ‘indefensible to destroy British jobs without the direct consent….’

    Lord help us , this is your lebensraum Pete, the idea of National jobs as some static commodity to bury in the garden and defend . We are in decline Pete and we have been declining for a century, and only a love for the world and other cultures , for music and art and science can save us. Pete – you supported Thatcher ,well she destroyed (can you destroy a job without creating a new one??)10s1000s of ‘British’ jobs…… where we headed

    Ukip = ideological shipwreck

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